 Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:38 am Post subject: |
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*L* Oh, now I know exactly what you mean. I'm guilty of this too, especially with shows and such where some aspects of canon were never really explored (in certain cases, fanon can actually be better then canon!). I think Aziz had some impressive power, but he was a nitwit. Of course, this is all from memory (Toon Disney hasn't shown any eps in a while), so I could be misremembering. And I'd be happy to help with your story ideas. 
On Fashir: Interesting theory. I could see him being an Aladdin-style hero in his younger days. Maybe Mirage was his "Jasmine". Cyclops could be a race. I mean, the series had mer-people and... mouse-people (whatever those fuzzy folks who were helping the evil mage in "Beast Or Famine" were). No idea about how Fashir could've gained his powers - yet.
I've been thinking lately that with an Evil Incarnate, they gain animal features of some sort, so as to appear more fearsome and unearthly. So there are ones with canine features, or equine ones, etc... Of course, this is just a theory. |
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| To Brighteyes:
Haha, fan universe syndrome is something I just made up. For me it means when you write enough fanfic that you start assuming fanon is canon. Like when I wrote Mirage as a goddess, I kinda forgot that the series never said she was one. Hmm Aziz as the most powerful villain? Maybe...I only remember him in two episodes, and while he was very powerful in the Destiny on Fire one, he did manage to destroy himself in the end. I also believe that Mirage was once human and then became Evil Incarnate. Also looking at Fashir's history it looks pretty possible; he kinda seems like he was a young hero kinda of like Aladdin one thousand years ago. But he wasn't human...he was a cyclops. Although who knows if that's an actual race or just some kind of weird birth defect in this series. I'd be interested in knowing how Fashir got his powers or if he was just born with them, since his monstrous brother seemed to be naturally powerful. Brighteyes, if you don't mind I'd like to run my ideas for this story by you. Get some suggestions and such. To Calluna: I read the Mirage discussion. Haha, frustration is evident. Maybe Iago was wrong. Or maybe the writers of the show just didn't plan her out well enough. About what exactly Evil Incarnate is, I am going to go with a post, a position of power where maybe you are vested with the duty to ..do evil. Lol. Honestly that's one explanation I could find valid for why Mirage doesn't defeat Aladdin. Maybe she refuses to defeat him in a way that isn't "evil" enough. Like, each time he manages to outsmart her and ruin her plans, it perhaps would be shameful for her to make a comeback right then and just destroy him (with a swipe of her claws since he is full of blood). Perhaps she's waiting for an opportune moment where evil really can triumph over good completely and without failure in between. I feel like she could have gained feline features after she became Evil Incarnate. Maybe it comes with the post. Who knows. She also got a sweet lair to go with it. Kinda like Moze got the Citadel from Destane. Oh Destane. I really wish the series had elaborated on him more. Maybe he wasn't the sadistic baby-killer that I paint him as. Haha. [/quote] |
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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I could see that. As someone in the thread that Calluna linked to said, Mirage could be like the Aladdin-verse's version of the devil. Tho I do wonder about her resemblance to Bastet, since from what I can understand, Bastet was a fairly benevolent goddess. BTW, what's fan-universe syndrome?
Well, most fics involving Mirage that I've seen haven't been too... uh, well, good, but you seem like a good writer. I have no problems reading about OCs.
Now I'm kind of curious: was it ever said in the show who the most powerful villain was? I kinda thought that title belonged to Aziz myself. I also rather liked "Chaos Comes Calling Myself" myself; that's an interesting point you raised about Chaos and Mirage. And finally, I agree, I'd like to see a (good) fic about Fate and Chaos crossing paths.
So many possibilties to explore with Mirage and the whole Evil Incarnate thing! Personally, I'm somewhat inclined to believe that an Evil Incarnate is some demonic-type position/creature (again with the demon stuff), kinda like the Seven Deadly Sins and their associations with particular demons. For some reason -- I have no clue why -- but I think Mirage may have begun as a normal human and then was turned into Evil Incarnate. |
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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This is another one of those threads where I have so much to say on the topic that I find it hard to say anything at all. So I'm just going to start replying to individual comments until I finally get it all out of my system. 
Here's a good Mirage discussion from six months ago. I'm sure there've been more, but it would take me a long time to find them. It's a good sneak preview for my upcoming rant when I finally get it out.
This is something I just thought of: the only time I can remember anyone actually saying that Mirage incredibly powerful was in her first episode, and the person who said so was Iago. So what if instead of her being too lazy or stupid to use her powers effectively, Iago was wrong? I'd need to go back and rewatch all the episodes again to be sure, but I might have to reevaluate my opinion of her if that turns out to be true...
I'm sure when Wendy came up with it in, what, 1995?, that it was a great idea. But by the time I discovered the fandom and everyone and his dog stole the idea, yeah, it got pretty annoying.
From "Eye of the Beholder": Fasir: You once left me, Mirage, to pursue your malevolent path, but one day love will triumph over your evil heart and bring you back to me. That sure sounds like Mirage wasn't always evil and that her becoming evil was the reason she left Fasir, but, then again, we only have his word for it... Genie also mentions that he knew of a different evil incarnate before he got stuck in the lamp for ten thousand years, but there's still the question of what Evil Incarnate is exactly. Is it just a title? Do you get powers when you become Evil Incarnate? Can there be more than one at a time?
I tend to think of her that way as well, not only because I've been believing Iago for the last 13 years, but also because she happens to look a lot like a certain Egyptian goddess... I'm going to rewatch "In the Heat of the Fright" right now, I'll probably have a lot more to say afterwards. |
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| I suffer from fan universe syndrome sometimes...Brighteyes, in response to your question, no I don't think she was ever called a goddess, but I began to write her as one in my story Antiphony. I started off calling her a demon and then switched to goddess somewhere along the way, and I think I just started assuming that's what she was in the series. Evil Incarnate kind of sounds like it could be a godlike position.
Anyway, I have been planning three villain backstories actually. Destane, Mirage, and Jafar. The Mirage one would be interesting, but I'm not too sure how much interest it would generate given the fact that the only canon characters in it would out of necessity have to be Fashir and Mirage, since they have a history that stretches way back before the series began. But I am glad that you would be interested in reading it 
Come to think of it, I think I may have called Mirage a goddess because of the episode with Chaos in it. Chaos was a god, and I assumed that Mirage was a lesser goddess of sorts. I have seen very few fanfics with Chaos portrayed well (the only one that comes to mind is Minotaur by Paul Sullivan) because he's so unpredictable and powerful. I thought that episode was very intriguing because Mirage, the most powerful villain (I think) was cowering before another cosmic force. Chaos also mentioned Fate as a real entity...who cheats at cards. Now that would be an interesting story if anyone could weave it together. |
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| I actually like Mirage, even tho I agree that she was pretty one-dimensional. Bebe Neuwirth did a good job of voicing her, she had a neat visual design, and the potential to be really cool, like another Jafar or something, IMHO. I could deal with the whole evil incarnate thing (to me, she's basically like a demon or something of that nature, and I can deal with them being evil just to be evil), but the writers should have spiced her personality up. I agree with the general theory that she always wasn't evil. Heck, was she always even a cat-lady?
In regards to the point bought up about her powers didn't keep her from loosing all the time, perhaps they could've toned them down some so her defeats wouldn't seem that ridiculous. I don't remember her ever being specifically called a goddess before - what episode was this in? Because she's kind of flat, there's lots of potential to explore and expound on her character further. I'm looking forward to your story, Cantare. |
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:58 am Post subject: |
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Is she?
An earned title does make sense given that she wasn't always supposed to be evil. I see a realm of possibilities opening up now: a school for those who want to study the path of EEEEEEVIL! Courses include hatching diabolical schemes, setting complex death traps, and perfecting your evil cackle. Most James Bond villains have graduated from this school. |
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| I agree, she had great plans but she didn't try hard enough to recover at the end, probably due to the 20 minute time limit of each episode... I remember the whole shadow of the obelisk episode had me confused with how there was a double illusion or something like that. I don't often get confused with Disney cartoons.
What puzzled me was the first episode where her firecats were defeated in the end, and then she just let Al and Genie out of Morbia. Uh, were the firecats all she had? Didn't she have anything else to throw at them? She's a goddess for crying out loud. Then again, maybe she doesn't just want to destroy the hero. She wants to destroy him in a manner that is satisfying enough to an absolute evil being like herself. Although I wonder if Evil Incarnate is a title she earned or an actual description of her nature. It seems like it could be a title she earned since Genie mentioned something about the last evil incarnate once. And also because she had a past with Fashir and wasn't evil at that point. Don't know any good Mirage fanfics though. Hm. |
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| My thing with Mirage is that she has these great plans, but don't really DO much to go through with them past putting them in place and that's it. She stands there WATCHING her plans fail, and then attempts to fix them at the last minute. Uh, wtf, Mirage |
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, lessa-see... she is rather flat. She's just evil incarnate with no quirks or traits to make her amusing or interesting.
It's been pondered upon exactly what happened in her past - and why Fasir was dating Evil Incarnate, anyway. Some have speculated that she wasn't always Evil Incarnate - which leads to the question of how she got there. (Evil catfood?) Is she really so powerful that she shouldn't be losing? It's possible that it takes time to develop her various plots and schemes. Building weapons of doom doesn't happen overnight, y'know.  |
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: Mirage |
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| Don't know if this has been discussed before, but just wondering what people think of this villain. I've seen pretty negative opinions, primarily concerning the fact that she seems to have no motivation other than being evil. Seems like a pretty flat character, and considering the amount of power she has, she shouldn't be losing to a bunch of mortals and a relatively weak genie.
Also, her history with Fashir. Very mysterious and not elaborated on at all. For the record, I get annoyed when people write her as Mozenrath's mother. I've got a story brewing in my head. Just hoping to get some more opinions about her. |
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